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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 13:47 
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skadooosh a écrit :
so if I understand you correctly:
I have saphyra the zil, telndar and abomination against
prius, ixor and centorium, I manage to bring all his character to 0 health point. the opponent brings saphyra and abo to 0 and telendar to -1.

He has dealt a total of 40 damages (an additionnal 7 were blocked by armor)
I dealt a total of 47 damage (an additionnal 7 were blocked by armor)

My opponent ends up with a sore of 40+47
I end up with a score of 39+47 and I loose to the score...

You're right, that looks fair...


The amount of damage blocked by armor doesn't matter.
If everyone ended up with 0 health, it's only fair that it should be a draw.
If you got them to 0, and they got you to -1, you should lose.

If you dealt 47 and they ended up with 0 HP, unless they got healed, they have a total printed health of 47.
If they dealt to you 40, and you ended with a character at -1, then you got a total of 39 printed health.

So indeed your own score is 39+47, and enemy score is 47+40, so they should win by 1 with my idea.

I'm not sure if it was sarcasm from you or not.

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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 14:21 
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Yep, that totally was sarcasm.
Because your idea is like an other game in fact. your sistem is basicly the same as just couting negative health for the score

In the situation I described, It would be completely unfair if the runic won and you should see that this is a huge problem.High health character start with a huge advantage to the score compared to low health char...
The more healthpoint your team has at the beginning of the game, the more point it will get at the end.
How fair is it that you get an advantage to the score before even starting the fight...

Your system would profit mainly to the top elo deck. And it is completely stupid to try and balance something in advantage of the best deck of the game.

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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 15:10 
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skadooosh a écrit :
Yep, that totally was sarcasm.
Because your idea is like an other game in fact. your sistem is basicly the same as just couting negative health for the score

In the situation I described, It would be completely unfair if the runic won and you should see that this is a huge problem.High health character start with a huge advantage to the score compared to low health char...
The more healthpoint your team has at the beginning of the game, the more point it will get at the end.
How fair is it that you get an advantage to the score before even starting the fight...

Your system would profit mainly to the top elo deck. And it is completely stupid to try and balance something in advantage of the best deck of the game.

First, my suggestion doesn't make the game all about negative health.
There are ALOT of ways to change the result, from killing characters (, , Lv3) wich doesn't count as damage taken, to Discard, to + combo.

How can you say that high health characters start with a huge advantage, if both sides managed to get each other to 0 HP?

Are you under the delusion that low health decks are overcoming difficult odds when facing a high health deck?
Do you think high health decks don't have their own difficulties?

You are essentially saying it's balanced for Zil and Runic to end up with 0 HP despite having different Health amounts (wich I agree) and then you say it's only balanced if Zil wins.
Why? Just because they defeated a higher health opponent?
Don't you see how biased that is?

It's exactly that thinking - Feerik's thinking - that make the system the way it is.
It's precicely why having high Health becomes a penalty in most situations - because if both sides have equal chances to win, the side that depends on high health is at disadvantage.

What distorts your view, is the fact that there are several high health decks in top elo, making it look like I'm interested in catering to them.

However, the fact that top elo decks are better than the rest, makes them completely irrelevant to this discussion.

This discussion is regarding situations of equal win chances.

Here's an example - after all cards are played,
Character A has 8 Attack, 2 Defense, 20 Health.
Character B has 12 Attack, 2 Defense 12 Health.

After 2 fights, they both have 0 HP.
At the end of the game, A got 12 points and B got 20.
In my idea, A would get 12+20 = 32 points, and B would get 20+12 = 32 points, resulting in a Draw.
In your idea, just because Character A is more focused on health and less on damage, he deserves to lose.

Not biased at all...

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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 15:32 
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What you fail to see is that the goal of the game is not to bring the opponent's character to 0 health, but to deal the maximum amount of damage+healing.

The disadvantage that nomad characters have doesn't rely on the high health but on the 0 def.

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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 15:35 
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skadooosh a écrit :
The disadvantage that nomad characters have doesn't rely on the high health but on the 0 def.

Only against physical damage.
Against magical deck or DD deck, the nomads are pretty good and not at all disadvantaged

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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 15:41 
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that was exactly my point.
The only situation were high health char are disadvantage is when they have 0 defense because they don't get to reduce damage from physical attack and this is precisely why they will loose to the score.

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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 15:42 
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skadooosh a écrit :
What you fail to see is that the goal of the game is not to bring the opponent's character to 0 health, but to deal the maximum amount of damage+healing.

The disadvantage that nomad characters have doesn't rely on the high health but on the 0 def.


Thanks for disregarding my whole post, and then change the subject to something that's not even being discussed.
I'm not talking about Nomads. I only used them as an example.
This suggestion also applies to Crow (average hp, high damage, deals magic damage) to a high hp, low spirit character - as long as they have equal chances to win.
This suggestion also applies to High HP & low damage, vs high damage & low HP - as long as they have equal chances to win.
Same for direct damage.
It applies to any situation where characters with different printed health have similar chance to KO each other.

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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 16:01 
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Nurvus a écrit :
It applies to any situation where characters with different printed health have similar chance to KO each other.


Well then don't you think that it is fair to say that it is harder to kill a character with more health?

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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 17:16 
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skadooosh a écrit :
Nurvus a écrit :
It applies to any situation where characters with different printed health have similar chance to KO each other.


Well then don't you think that it is fair to say that it is harder to kill a character with more health?


Well then don't you think that it is fair to say that it is harder to kill a character that takes less damage?

Well then don't you think that it is fair to say that it is harder to survive against a character that deals more damage?

If the two characters have equal chances to kill each other, then for one character to have more health, the other will have to have means to take that extra health down, or be better at defending his lower health.

Whatever it is, for both characters to end at 0 HP, it means the one with lower health compensated it with something else.

So perhaps your character has more health, but has less damage, or less defenses, or the cards he can play aren't as good, perhaps weaker combos, it goes on.

But in the end, losing to score for the sole reason that he has more health, is unfair.
No one is penalized in score for having more defense, more attack or spirit, or access to better cards.

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Message Publié : 16 Avril 2013, 17:55 
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And what is if a character get resurrected ?
How do you want handle cards like , , (level 3) or ?

Or what is if a totally new character comes in the game and replace the old one ?
Cards like or .

Sorry but I am totally against this idea.
Nomaden are strong enough and this change would only create more problems.


Dernière édition par Sereaphim le 16 Avril 2013, 18:03, édité 1 fois.

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