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Message Publié : 04 Mars 2015, 23:59 
Guémélite

Inscription : 25 Juillet 2014, 11:37
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Elfines... for some of us they are the perfect combo of fierce female power but for some they are the major .

Their main strategy is to hit as many times as possible with a relativly ordinary attack base, thus their users tend to use cards to decrease the defence of the enemy or to increase their own damage output.

Now that is exactly where i want to interfere.

Let's assume the following situations:

Image VS Image

Situation 1: Round 1, no cards played:

The possible outcome is:
- suffering a maximum of 4 damage (first and third attack are dealing a maximum of 9 damage minus 7 defense [note that Ergüji is also giving himself +1 defence] and the second attack is 5 so it won't cause damage) 2+0+2=4
- will suffer a maximum of 5 damage points

Situation 2: Round 1, and played by

Now the possible outcome is:
- suffering a max of 3 damage (Hawk gives +2 Defense)
- , now having only 5 def, suffers a maximum of 14 damage (first and third attack are dealing a maximum of 9 damage each, +2 from arrows, minus 5 defense equals 6; the second attack deals 5 damage, +2 from arrows, minus 5 defense equals 2) 6+2+6=14

In my point of view that is not logical, since the card text does read, "he has +2 to physical damage he suffers"

Now in fact that really means that IF he suffers physical damage he will suffer an additional +2 but only if!!!

So in fact the situation 2 should look like this:

- suffering a max of 3 damage (Hawk gives +2 Defense)
- , now having only 5 def, suffers a maximum of 12 damage (first and third attack are dealing a maximum of 9 damage each, +2 from arrows, minus 5 defense equals 6; the second attack deals 5 damage, minus 5 defense equals 0) 6+0+6=12

The same logic goes vice verca with additional damage dealt: Only once there is damage dealt, that damage should be increased.

Of course in a fight against chars who have no or very low defense it will not make any difference because whenever the elfine hits, the additional effects will trigger, but some other decks are having major problems with this logic.
If I use Abara, Noz-Mage, or whathaveyou with high defense you will always see an elfine with a base damage of 5/9 dealing an impressive 7 damage with a single attack against someone having a defense of lets say 14.

That ultimately results in a the following questions: Are the elfines a race dominated by illogical cards? or are theirs texts just framed very poorly?

What are you thoughts about that?


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Message Publié : 05 Mars 2015, 04:05 
Immortel
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Inscription : 04 Février 2013, 17:01
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(+2 spell damage) means +2 to the final damage of every spell

with cards like poisoned arrows or is the same, every physical damage instance is increassed by 2

do the inverse of this

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Message Publié : 05 Mars 2015, 14:25 
Guémélite

Inscription : 25 Juillet 2014, 11:37
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to me this still does not make sense...

the reverse example of reducing received damage is totally unfitting since it works absolutely logical

even the academic lesson has a different phrasing "+2 to spell damage" can only be interpreted as add an additional 2 damage on every spell that causes damage... nothing wrong here

but phrasing the elfine cards with "physical damage suffered" does not fit in this role... if there is no damage suffered, then there is nothing to add..

maybe rephrasing the cards in "all elfines will have their min-base attack increased by 1" would totally solve this


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Message Publié : 06 Mars 2015, 13:26 
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i know what you mean, this wording could be misunderstood

but just think from this side: 0 damage suffered is 0 + 2 (arrows) = 2

0 = 0, no "no damage suffered"

the game works with numbers, the logic of the numbers ignores the logic of the words

sometimes both fails, sometimes only one of them, in this case i think the mechanic is fine (following the same logic of accademic lesson, forced march, illegal cargo), but the wording isnt intuitive

with 0 spells in the discard + academic = 2 damage

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Message Publié : 07 Mars 2015, 14:49 
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We have the same wording problem in german ...
it sounds totally clear but works in an other way.

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Message Publié : 07 Mars 2015, 18:26 
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well if we cant change the logic of the numbers so that it fits the logic of the words... maybe we can do the other way and change the wording accordingly


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Message Publié : 08 Mars 2015, 18:08 
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finally, we can agree in something :)

im not very good with the english wording if anyone want to help me with that i would be very grateful

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Message Publié : 11 Mars 2015, 18:42 
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I think the clearest wording would be "Incoming <type> damage is increased by X".

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Message Publié : 11 Mars 2015, 23:48 
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thanks

p.s.: nurvus here? cant believe it

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Message Publié : 04 Juin 2015, 10:25 
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this is the first time i checked illegal cargo (cant test every wording) i believe my pirate marauder with 0/1 attack dealt no damage to a 2 defense opponent with illegal cargo if i remember

then if you deal 0 damage, illegal cargo wont deal 2 damage, maybe the same with the arrows
its really weird if the 2 different functions were created for the same kind of effect

if someone could test this for me i would be grateful and i apologize for dismiss it before testing

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