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Fixing Last Barrier
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Auteur :  GilgameshXII [ 12 Juillet 2016, 13:55 ]
Sujet du message :  Fixing Last Barrier
Well because the card is in my opinion the worst game fu noffender i would try to fix it with not destroying the card.

Current
Legendary. Item Shield. Unique. Permanent.
Defense and Spirit = 0. As this card activates and at the start of the fight, X equals your character's health points. At the end of the fight, if your character suffered less than 10 damage points during the turn, he dies. Otherwise, his health points are restored to X and you choose 2 opposing cards, they are discarded.

Suggestion:
Legendary. Item Shield. Unique. Permanent Duration 3 fights.
Defense and Spirit = 0. As this card activates and at the start of the fight, X equals your character's health points. At the end of the fight, if your character suffered less than 10 damage points during the turn, or this card was removed from him, he dies. Otherwise, his health points are restored to X and you choose 2 opposing cards 1 opposing Enemy Card, is discarded.

Ok, the explainaiton:

Why 3 Fights?
Well permanent is a bit harsch, because if you lost your removal card, its game over, you can not win in some instances no matter what happens.
With 3 turns you at least have time frame. If you survive that you have earned the victory. it gives bot hplayers a fair chance.

Why remove spirit and def =0?
Wel lthats pretty obvius, because lets be honest... nearly everything now does at least 10 dmg. so its basicly a free get out of lose card every time.
A litle example i encountered against a discard abara deck.
The enemy had 12 defence(well abara) and i had to break throug hthat defence wit henoug hfirepower.....but there came the last barrier to save him. because you had to have enough attack to break the defense you obviusly cant kill.
And i lost 2 of my cards.
after that i had to play an ineffizient removal card () and oh look there his defense is again 12. With 2 of my cards gone i had not enough fire power to break him down.
(another option i could think of change the def and spirit t oa til lthe end of game effekt and make it so the defence and at can not be increased)

so there was zero risk for hi mplaying that card.

Why kil lthe char when its removed.
Simple, you will most likely get that 1 free althing anyway.
And other than althing you dont even lose your equipment.
So why not make it more risk and reward.
The reward is stil lhigh, but now it has an actual risk.
And not to forget yo uwill in most cases have that 1 free better althing effekt.
Now it would need more thought to play.

Why dont choose 2 cards?
Ok, lets be hones choosing 2 cards on a single card itself would be a REALLY good effekt as is, even if it had no other effekt.
Because there is no other universal discard card that strong except which.. who knows, is highly played to that extent that it was once banned from global.
choosing to remove 2 cards is so strong because you can take the enemy his key cards, and even 2 of them.
So even if he can remove your last barrier, you might not be able to break through the stats after that.

Well that would be my suggestion.
Because even after all the nerfes that i suggest here, it would still be a better althing in my opinion.
Auteur :  Calandra [ 12 Juillet 2016, 15:43 ]
Sujet du message :  Re: Fixing Last Barrier
the following is a very personal view based on personal experience with the last barrier in my deck AND enemy deck

this card is very strong, yes! it can save you and win you the battle if not taken care immidiatly... currently i m using the last barrier in my quilingo deck and it pretty much is a life saviour to my marodeur deck in situations that appear like i wont be able to kill the enemy fast enough or not strong enough to win via score

now the tricky part about this very legend is, that you have to think what the enemy will most likely be playing and in which moment... if i get in the negative hp before the barrier activated i lost... actually even wasted a card slot i could have used to deal further damage instead... if i played the card and the enemy deals less damage then expected i also lose my char and could have played something else instead... also if i play the barrier and my enemy foresees me and plays a discard or blocks my items (WB can do that) i also lost...

i consider that enough of a backslash...

changing the duration i think is ok... 3 fights is still long enough
changing the de and spirit changes to permanent? well you will decrease chances of working with the legend... i ve seen ppl using a glorious helmet after playing the shield... then receiving just too little damage because of the helmet, so they died... with a permanent change... that chance is gone

in my humble point of view... if you dont take enough means with you to discard an action or item in times of need... its your very own fault... my advice would be to work on your deck

in my personal experience in amnezy i came across several situation where the barrier was more a hindrence then actual benefit... i would say a rough 33% of all situations are really suffering from high risk to play this card...

how i handle the barrier? either via direct discard, or via out of battle damage... most decktypes got both ways and i think thats good enough to work around the legends effect...

summary: do i think last barrier is strong? yes, it is! do i think its broken? hell no!
do i think there are a good many ways to cope with the legend? you bet there are!
Auteur :  GilgameshXII [ 14 Juillet 2016, 11:01 ]
Sujet du message :  Re: Fixing Last Barrier
True, it is very much based o nperosnal opinion.
but i just found it was way to sure of a card to use.
Yes, cards that activate before last barrier can hinder that effekt.
But even so, lets say you have a marodeur who has a pretty high base atk, or the good friend the runic legio nwith 15 atk.
You wil lget 1 free hit.
You have initiative and you play the card and the enemy mage cant kil lyou because(typicly) damaging mage cards dont have a high tendency to discard(i nthe case of noz blast or pirates).
While on the other hand against warrior or marodeurs you can wait til lthe enemy has initiative and play it as your second card.
because no enemy card will most likely activate after that you have a high chance to be safe.

And yeah, discard is a possibility, but remember thaere are decks withouth a strong discard card who rely on other strengths(e.g. DK).
So you rely on the chance that you draw or 1 tecked in discard card or you loose. And even then you have to have enoguh fpower to bring him down from full hp.
The worst offender here are like i said abara, because hey, you might have that one card to remove it, but the dicard mechanic wil lsurely get rid of it.
Same with zil discard.
And that is just no fun for me, the fact that you have a 100% win with just that cheap tactic agaisnt some decks.

And seriusly???
Who is dumb enough to play a glorius helmet...to be hones the guy deserved the los.
i think its just the confusion around the card you need to get used to, that actually 0 def and spirit is the best value you can have.
I just proposed the effekt so discarting it would give you a benefit and not get you back to a even situation.
Like i said, in my example the abra would stay at 0 and not go up to that insane value of 14

But the biggest problem is, if you know the enemy deck, you can 100% of the time make use of the barier.
Because, i feel it is too good at everything.
It should be in my opinion a high risk last chance card like .
Because you can suprise your enemy because its the last battle and you survive because of the effekt.
But there is the other use to, yo ucan just play it on turn 1 with no repurcusion.
You will still have a ful lhealth char after the effekt triggered, but the enemy had to take your attack.
And if he needs build up cards, theyr gone now too.
You can even make sure its triggers as yo uwant by running into a strong tur nbonus on purpos.
Like lets say purposely go into a +3 atk bonus.
You get rid of a strong turn bonus for the enemy AND discard 2 maybe important cards AND get no damage.
And i think the more knowledge you have about the enemy deck, the better you can use that card.
And now the worst part, because the card is good at every moment of the game you can not predict it.
You can not even be sure if he has the card, but you know that if you get rid of your discard mechanick you WILL lose.
And that bad game design for me because the whole game revolves ariound ,can i beat that card?
And sometimes the enemy having 1 less useful lcard in hand can be enough, not drawing key cards can be enough.
Som stuff like althing ,yo ucan see that comign and defeat the 1 health guy outfight.
But with last barrier you mostly have a Ful lhealt hor 8 health char outside who is hard to kill.

And you see that the way that, oh you lose a damage card.
that is true, but you need to remember the enemy must play(sometimes a horribly inefficient) removal card, so he gives up one damage card as well.
The onyl difference is that you survived a leathal blow with no hp lost.
And dont forget you somewhat have a strength or defense boost build it it, because removing enemy cards is quite strong, and because you choose you could eg get rid of 2 glorius helmets or remove other core cards from the enemy.

i would even like to see given a similar effekt to althing ,setting the HP to 1.
Its just that, i saw althign and thought to myself ok, that card is pretty good but i has its weaknesses.
Like you lose all your cards attached and you only remain and 1 hp.
And i thought that was strong but not necessarily op.
And now its perma banned.
And with last barier we have basicly
set hp to 8 discard 2 enemy cards and this is permanent.
It just seems so much better that the permanently banned card which caused a giant uproar.
Auteur :  Mr. Zub [ 19 Juillet 2016, 15:30 ]
Sujet du message :  Re: Fixing Last Barrier
To my mind, The Last Barrier and The Althing should have same status - if one of them is banned, the other one should be banned too.
Auteur :  chaosdark1 [ 24 Juillet 2016, 00:42 ]
Sujet du message :  Re: Fixing Last Barrier
i agree last barrier is to op with the def and spirit= 0
Auteur :  Cat_Wachter [ 25 Juillet 2016, 15:36 ]
Sujet du message :  Re: Fixing Last Barrier
GilgameshXII a écrit :
Suggestion:
Legendary. Item Shield. Unique. Permanent Duration 3 fights.
Defense and Spirit = 0. As this card activates and at the start of the fight, X equals your character's health points. At the end of the fight, if your character suffered less than 10 damage points during the turn, or this card was removed from him, he dies. Otherwise, his health points are restored to X and you choose 2 opposing cards 1 opposing Enemy Card, is discarded.

+1

Since is banned I still dont understand how this even "stronger" card is not. But banning is no option, nerfing for balance feels better.
Auteur :  Calandra [ 25 Juillet 2016, 23:59 ]
Sujet du message :  Re: Fixing Last Barrier
althing is a 100% card... not discardable... no drawback... you play it and you know whats going to happen... the last barrier carries a risk of losing your own char...

the althing is NOT like last barrier... please dont mix them
Auteur :  GilgameshXII [ 26 Juillet 2016, 14:45 ]
Sujet du message :  Re: Fixing Last Barrier
Dont forget, with althing its alway the case that "at the end of battle do x damage" effekts can kill a althed char too.
Auteur :  GriefStone [ 26 Juillet 2016, 18:04 ]
Sujet du message :  Re: Fixing Last Barrier
GilgameshXII a écrit :
Dont forget, with althing its alway the case that "at the end of battle do x damage" effekts can kill a althed char too.


that is the same for LB, but unlike Althing multiple Dmg-instances don't count too the the 10 point threshold of LB. Althing just checks for something similar to state-based actions.

and to be honest, most people that run into LB are Aggro, Blast or Buffstax players, who cannot easily lower their Dmg-output.
Althing is outright broken, while LB could be seen as our games Sol Ring or Force of Will. Extremely powerful cards, which either puts you at a tactical advantage or nullify the attempt of the other player to have it his way. LB does both. Keeps a certain part of the Meta in check, while being a fragil and removable threat on its one.

In short LB is a meta influencing card, of which a player has to be aware of.
Althing just ruins the game.

And to compare those cards with each other make actually no sense. Occasionally, they might be used for the same purpose, but that's it.

Althing cannot be interacted with. Just predicted!
Auteur :  Wolvos [ 26 Juillet 2016, 19:13 ]
Sujet du message :  Re: Fixing Last Barrier
being countered in some specific situations both cards

i think both cards are similar and can be compared

when althing was released normal room was madness, same when they unbanned althing from amnezy the same happened, it seems no one remember the unkillable artrezil, living shadow + shadow guem shadow agony deck, yes althing is only counterable, but still the deck was top thanks to that. this is happening again with tlb

lb an ta can be countered/outplayed in specific situations
lb can be unequiped, ta doesnt
ta can be used once for use, lb up to 3 times for use
both can be useless, sit on your hand, be stealed from discard or deck
both reduce the actions you make, sometimes this is meaningless, sometimes screw you, but in general top decks are the same decks and this card untie the match for one player

i think cheating death cards arent good for the game, legendaries must have unique effects instead of legal cheat codes effects
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