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 Sujet du message : Re: Level based rewards
Message Publié : 18 Juin 2013, 08:08 
Marchand

Inscription : 08 Avril 2013, 21:11
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Alerce a écrit :
Schrei_VonWeisheit a écrit :
There is currently no cap on what level you can reach in eredan, after around level 20 or so it takes around 100 wins (or 200+losses) to level.
In game chat has always been a community request, currently it's limited to people in your in game contacts, and when you're playing against said people through your contacts, it locks all of your trophy progressions to "prevent abuse".
No one understands why feerik has truly taken such actions outside of them trying to churn out a profit.

My comment about your level was semi sarcastic. You're in "safe" rooms up until level 13 or 15, then you're introduced to the level x+ where every player, including boss users, may play without restrictions. Leveling is a punishment for new players.


indeed leveling is punishing for new players, but what makes this so ilogical is that there are so many ways implemented to prevent a real united communion, for example, give cards as gift to my friends, sometimes y have cards i dont need, and they are expensive, and i have friends that dont pay, i would like to give something to them, but i just cant, its a truely egocentric game...


See the little speech I added in addendum to the original post.

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Message Publié : 18 Juin 2013, 08:13 
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yeah, is pretty obvious what you say, but very little people understands it, eredan is just mirroring at a micro scale a highly controlled economy from many countries, where richer gets richer, poor gets poorer and the gap just keeps increasing trough the time
balance is the key, and for that we need the flow of more cards into the market, no just 1xxxxxx crystals, in the hands of ppl that already has a lt more than that...


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Message Publié : 18 Juin 2013, 08:18 
Marchand

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Welp, feerik is a company, and they're trying to be on the rich getting richer end of that shtick, the only difference between an in game economy, and a real life economy, is that in game, there is a limit to how much greed you can have, which is why those who are wealthy with in game currency will reach a point where they no longer need to use real currency.
In real life however, there's no limit to what one can spend on, which is why the rich are so goddamned greedy, but the problems of the real world are for another discussion.
My concern here, is that the game is taking the same approach as real world economies, and will eventually fail as such, because the richest players won't need to invest, and new players won't want to invest.

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Message Publié : 18 Juin 2013, 22:21 
Marchand

Inscription : 08 Avril 2013, 21:11
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Bump: Updated economy fix.

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Message Publié : 18 Juin 2013, 23:11 
Immortel
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So, first forgive me for my bad English, it is possible I don't use the most accurate word for what I want to write.

The economy of this game is based on several things :
- Low supply due to low number of players paying for the game. This is inevitable for a free to play game. At most 10% of players will pay for the game. And a game like this with 5% of regularly paying player is a success.
- High demand due to number of free players who want have all cards or competitive decks. The best cards are obviously the most researched and the most expensive.
- Small cards exchange. There is no player to player private exchange, the free players can't put cards on market.
- Continuous creation of money. The players plays and win some crystals, there is way to buy crystals with Feez. Trophies, tournaments,...
- Small amount of crystals destruction. The destruction of crystals occurs only when players buy some cards (10% tax).
- Boredom. Every player will find the game boring at some point of time, this point of time depends of each players, but it is inevitable. When this point is reached, the player stop to play and the cards he has are removed from the game.
- Greedy. A player wants to have the best income from his investment. So when you buy a booster with real money, you want to have a real advantage on the others players. This can be in the game or with the cards you can obtain.
- Feerik. Feerik needs to have some income to make the game live.
- Market gangsters. Due to small amount of cards available, some players can lock th market to their price. 10 cards max for high value cards is more than the cards on the market. (Actually at time I wrote, the max number of cards on the market for more than 300K crystals kind of cards is 6).

So now, what can we do ?

If we allow all players to sell all cards (including the ones received in adventure mode), we could have a lot of cards in market but this will lead to drop of price.
Basically it is good for most of free players. But for paying players ? They won't find any advantage to buy boosters if the return of investment is bad. Actually he is not very good, with no possible income from the market (or marginal one), the result will be worst.

If we stay as it is, the new players will still find the game difficult to enter and old players will leave due to boring part. Long term bad, small term not so bad with player base slowly shrinking and possible new big spending players from time to time.

If we reduce the number of crystals created by the game, the new players will find still difficult to have the cards on the market. The prices will only drop if players wants to sell so badly cards they reduces the price, if not, the price will stay the same. And in case of breaking price, the market holder will basically buy the card to put it at his price. So price drop is very improbable. New players will be more uncomfortable with less crystals than actually.

Feerik has tried some ideas to change the economy and being new player friendly :
- Sellable card for 5 consecutive daily quest. This correspond to a 120 Feez 4-cards boosters each month. Bad thing ? Every non character can be in it and probably old common cards.
- Cards from adventure mode. The best way to have cards for a non paying player. Bad part ? A lot of common, very, very few rares and missing specific bosses for several guilds.
- Cards available in Feez. To counter some market holder and raise card availibility, the cards of the basic series are available in Feez on the market. Bad part ? only for paying players.
- Market tax of 30%. To reduce the number of crystals in play, the staff try to put a big tax. Result ? Revolution on forum and Facebook, 2 days later the tax was removed.
- Pot tournament. Feerik tries the amnezy pot with half of the created crystals during games played in tournament distributed to the winners. Result ? After 2 weeks, no-one in the tournaments because mid-range, low players don't want give theirs crystals to the winners.
- Feez with level change. Good idea, but this lead to a lot of multi-account to use the free feez to buy cards and sell them at very low price to the principal account. Then Feerik removes this 2 weeks ago.
- Create a new comers boosters to allow to find new cards easily. This allow to the big spenfind players to buy boosters, but this lead to a lack of old cards for collectors and for big decks for Amnezy.
- Medallions in tournament. Incite players to go in tournament and give an objective to have a legendary cards or old event cards. This has no bad aspect until now, except than every one want to have more medallions quicker.

I don't have a definitive solution for all theses problems.
All I can say is to think twice at the solution you suggest a small change can lead to a big disturbance in the fragile balance of the economy.
If no-one buy boosters, the game will end
If no-one fill in the game, the game will end
If all old players leaves the game, the game will end.

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Message Publié : 19 Juin 2013, 00:07 
Marchand

Inscription : 08 Avril 2013, 21:11
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I suggest you re-read the OP every time I bump for an update, I'm trying to address everything by suggesting things that cover the weaknesses of each fix.
In all fairness, the game needs a total rebalance, trying to address a single issue with a single solution will not work as it is a drastic change to only one aspect of a multi-layered object.

My retort to your points

-the single card per 5 daily quests is fine as is, sure, rarely does something spectacular come from it, but it's free, and the crystal price of the card is usually only slightly lower than what one would have received from the daily quest.

-Rare cards in adventure mode ARE sparse, rare cards that actually fetch a decent market price are even Rarer. Allowing players to sell said cards would increase card stock, but because of sparsity, it's the equivalent of winning the lottery for actually turning a profit, and it would ease the pain of card destruction that happen every day.

-Basic cards available with feez has no downsides, seriously, the fact that people who do pay can instantly create said card is what reduced the inflation of cards like fireball and assassination, and reduced prices entail higher accessibility to all players if the person that payed REAL moneys decides to sell it. It is the first feature available to paying players that is actually fair and in sync with free players.

Tournaments
My suggestion entails removing large lump sums of crystals being created as opposed to creating more per playtime for each individual play.
The old pot system tournaments, and even the current ones are completely unlimited in what cards they use, making them even worse than global in terms of pvp.

Creating a mirrored tournament for each format, where one is solely medallion rewards, and the other is pot rewards, creates the possibility of a completely different audience for each tournament, as each one has completely different types of benefits.
The tournaments with no entry fee without a crystal profit,would give gratuitous medallions.(With no change to registry/10 win rewards). This would appeal to people of all skill types who would like to obtain new cards, without pumping crystals into the market, but would add cards (except event uniques obviously) to the marketplace. This, in turn, would not stress eredan's economy so much as even it out and balance it.

Adding all of the boosters to the medallion store for their feez price would increase cards in circulation, but since only ranking players will reap such rewards, their crystal balance will only increase from the player market, not from thin air. I doubt there are any ranking players that haven't invested into this game to make their initial profits, so to say this would cut feez sales would be inaccurate.

Having a tournament for each format that requires a fee, but rewards in crystals from the pot, would require monitoring for cards allowed in the basic and standard rooms(as the staff has been), but would give crystal reward that do not come out of thin air.

The two types of profit from game play are completely different, and there will likely be subsets of players that prefer one over the other. Players interested in crystals have to risk losing crystals, players interested in cards(and the superspecialawesome event cards) risk nothing.

It would be plausible to allow players to register for only one type for each format per tournament period.

The key to both working is that players have the option of doing one, the other, not having it set in stone that one needs play the pot, or one needs to make alternative in game currency to progress.
With well regulated tournaments, especially with the staffs focus being solely on standard here on out, having dual reward systems would be a positive.

Prices would drop as more cards are introduced(granted most people will shoot for event cards before boosters), and as I've said in the other thread, the only two types of people that would be outraged by lower prices are the ones that do not understand that the market is, in fact, inflated, and the people who are acting as digital bankers to break prices and churn a profit. The deflation of prices would not be so sudden, that it seems like a deal breaking, profit breaking endeavor.

--By making the main crystal gain of actually playing the game based on experience, it keeps players playing, and paying, as opposed to giving paying players so many crystals from competitions they get bored and don't need to pay anymore.

-The market tax failed because it attempted to remove the crystals from the game with a single solution, one thing can't fix something larger, older, and pretty much draconian.

- The majority of newer players get bored from constantly losing all of the time, and being faced with their investment bringing little to no guaranteed income. The reason older, richer players get bored, is because they've made enough in game currency that they no longer need to pay, and just beat the snot out of everyone they can for event cards and free crystals until they up and leave.

-Greed is something that is relative, especially in this game, because I see certain prices as greedy because in my day, they were half of what they are. By evening out the profits from every aspect of the game, paying players will not, nor ever lose the advantage, especially when it comes to card creation. The point is, making investment into feez more profitable than being a Bankster in eredan's marketplace and stopping the lockouts of prices by increasing overall card stock.

Remember, adventure drops are controlled by the game mods, they can manipulate what cards it may drop to prevent overpopulation, but nurture a healthy stock of cards so that banksters can't lock out prices.
They also control the rates which the sliders change, and how long a player can have a card on the market place, so game mods do, in fact, have the ability to directly alter the marketplace. Currently there is no moderation, and that is how corruption and banksters come into existence.

Buying boosters with guaranteed amounts of rares will always outclass grinding for weeks for a single rare you may or may not be able to use.
Modifying and moderating what can be dropped, as well as how often, is a simple solution to adventure cards getting out of hand.

My suggestions are well thought out, and are often ammended for any holes they might have (as points of this conversation will be added to the op)

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Message Publié : 21 Juin 2013, 03:17 
Guémélite
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Well thought out and very good ideas.

Not going to happen, but it's nice to dream.

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Message Publié : 01 Juillet 2013, 07:55 
Marchand

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OP Edit and update. Bump.

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Message Publié : 01 Juillet 2013, 07:57 
Vénérable

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Imagine all the people, living live in peace


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Message Publié : 01 Juillet 2013, 08:11 
Marchand

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I do, and it would be lovely, but unfortunately, money is evil, and it makes people do things that they wouldn't do if they were in their right mind.

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