majinman ask you, what is the weakness of the ignoring cards deck?

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I don't think it has to have a weakness, but against itself must not the best strategie. The Idee 'ignoring' (but i have no proof but you also haven't) is weak/useless against itself.
Than perhaps you can play better cards (with ability) instead of irgnoring card, because the ability to irgnore helps that the opponent couldn't be stronger, but ignoring makes you not stronger! (yes there exists card how ignore and have other effects but you can't play it in each Deck)

The definition of an over powered combination is when it doesn't have a weakness, so to support your paper-scissor-rock analogy from the first page, yes it does need a weakness. Seriously, with all those unique styles out there hand deny, discard, Zil Priest (opposite of discard), you couldn't think of one weakness for ignore style and yet you claim they are not over powered?

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Ty Boadicea for the awesome farewell gift. Now just to think up an avatar to go with it. Anyway, I'm still a Sap/Nomad/Pirates fan and user.

I think what Martin is saying is that the ignore card is being played in place of a card that could deal extra damage. In effect meaning that, yes you have ignored your opposing card but then done nothing to boost your own characteristics. Is this nature of almost being their own enemy what you might consider to be their weakness? As the "Not needing a weakness.." bit simply blows my mind. I can only guess as to what point you might be trying to make with a clearly wrong statement.

(Strength = Why it wins... Weakness = Why is looses, without both you would just have the same result each fight, be it win or loose. All decks must have both.)

Firstly, the more popular of the cards featuring the ignore effect now do boost your own characteristics anyway. Secondly how much of a weakness is it when your expecting to use ignore cards. You will stack your deck to accommodate these cards and the lack of boost to characteristics.

Once again, a great example of this is the Runic Warrior ignore style deck in the Amnezy, that deck does particularly well as the base characteristics for those Chars' need little boosting and so the player is free to ignore in the knowledge that his warriors will win the bare fist fight. Think, when'd you last see a Mage ignore style deck? People aren't stupid and wont just ignore opposing cards to get beaten up slowly by an opposing players base characteristics and so as much as I accept the truth in what you've said, to me, it in no way comes close to balancing out. The problem is far too easily overcome to even be considered a problem in my eyes.

Cards like you need du begining of Game.

must be aktivated, but if the oppoment stronger without playing card or din't play gildcard its useless.

is not overpowerd because it is against spells and not play by everyone.

Spirit!

Zitat: 'because the ability to irgnore helps that the opponent couldn't be stronger, but ignoring makes you not stronger!'

good but not OP.

okay yes its strong but not the Deck which can play it. The Pack only can wins when play with ignore cards, else you will win against mage how play many cards in a round.

only against Gildecards and Zitat: 'because the ability to irgnore helps that the opponent couldn't be stronger, but ignoring makes you not stronger!' Must play in the right moment.

I know Runic-Legion ( etc.) have some ignore cards but sometimes i win with and the reason i don't thing its OP

[While i wrote you have write, so it is not aktuell]

And you have to play often before. if you havent Initiative its useless to chain as 2nd card

Id say those are simply scenarios when the cards aren't useful, and for me not very compelling arguments for that either. Just saying they are good but i beat them before means nothing, this is not a weakness to the ignore deck strategy or evidence of one. Yeah, I beat Runic Warrior ignore style too with some luck and I've used one to experiment. It will get you over 1600 in Amnezy, that is fact. If it doesn't, your not using it right.

This is evidence that the deck strategy, although flawed in areas (such as the examples you have given) is stronger than most and although it may loose from time to time, it has potential to be able to beat all opponents, provided it isn't dealt a really bad hand. What has a really high chance to beat this deck? This is what we are asking when we ask about what is it weakness.

Also, something that we haven't spoke about but I think is huge in this discussion is WHY DO PEOPLE HATE IT SO MUCH?

Lets assume that it isn't OP... Why have the majority been against it so far? How does it feel for a player to have his deck negated and how does this effect the number of people playing the game? Do we want bare fisted fights where power combos are no longer viable and decks with high base characteristics rule?

For me... Yes, the loosing player will always be unhappier than the winner, but the loosing player MUST feel he stood a chance, no matter how small that chance might be. When I think that my opponent will just ignore my cards and render my strategy useless, i find it hugely demotivating and often just close the laptop and walk away mid-game not to return for some time. I occasionally don't want a chance to win, i just want a chance to have fun playing the cards that i have bought/spent time collecting or to try new combos/strategies. I meet an ignore deck and just think why'd I buy all these cards and spend so long on making up a strategy for it to just come down to who's characters have the best base characteristics. Why buy Mage cards to not use spells, why get Murasama's 7 Secrets when you cant get any weapons out and if you do, they'll just ignore the combo finisher. Why bother basically... In summary i find it depressing.

That is how it makes me feel, be it right or wrong. None of it relates to the power of the card, the people using it and the counters against it. Just how it makes me feel about Eredan ITCG, please tell Dev's how you feel.

use arguments, avoid generalizations (like "WHY DO PEOPLE HATE IT SO MUCH?")

talking about the benefit/loss of ignore cards, is obvious, cripple certain plays of certain decks generate more benefits (in almost every deck, against every deck) than playing your normal strategy, elfine and runic humans (both are top elo now) have this kind of strategy, that is why they are higher with counters than without counters

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This is exactly how i see it too. I do apologise for the generalisation but i didn't feel it was unjust after the responses we have had in this post and the responses i've had talking with clan members. I'll ask again in another way then, WHY DO I HATE THEM SO MUCH? or WHY MIGHT OTHERS HATE THEM?.. and how does this effect the player base?

I only bring this up not so that others can just have a good moan, but to give insight to dev's on how they are effecting their player base which is obviously key to this games success and longevity.

To end the discussion I'd just say something that should be simple enough to stop arguing why ignoring is OP and instead offering solutions from now on:

Ignoring is not OP by itself, it is OP because such cards are used by characters with better stats and if characters were to play no cards, the one with better stats would win; ignoring cards strictly means to control the opponent by forcing him to face the combat in its bare stats, where your character has generally better stats than you opponent; and there are cases (eclipses and others) where the cards do not only ignore but buff at the same time; that's where OPness comes (or Centrollium and forbidden rites, play a counter, gain a rune, use the rune; you have better stats, keep ignoring, keep gaining stats, keep controlling and win by denial)

The balance comes from stats, not counters alone.

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Thanks for jumping in man. I don't know why it would be important to end the discussion but regardless, the solution you mentioned is? I don't think I understood what you were implying would be a solution?

Id say the characters stats isn't the problem and what would you do if were going to talk about solutions and stats? Make every character have the same base stats? People using the high stat chars are just exploiting the fact that those chars can use those cards and maybe stopping those chars using those cards all together would be better.

I wanted to isolate what the community thought might be the problem before i thought about solutions but if I was to hazard a guess at a solution i think it'd be better to look at the offending cards individually and see how they are being used. God of Evil for example could be Nerfed to only be used by one guild/class. I think just making it so that not so many ignore cards are available to one deck would help a huge amount.