To Wolvos and Calandra: Okay, I'll change CAT and remove Nebsen.

About al other: why are you looking at the combinations that are not most powerfull? Of course, if menacing sky was drawning smth like Specters of lightning struck, it is not an imba-combo. But there are much more powerfull combinations, like
1 turn: Izandra - Master-Mage lesson (on Marquis) +violent breeze, 2 turn - Marquis - 2 Menacing sky, 1 of which draws Lightning bolts as the only other lightning spell in the deck. Let's count: 2 (printed)+1 (order) +4 (lesson) +1(ability) +4 (spirit bonus of sky's) +2 (breeze) +2 (lightning bolts) = 16 damage AOE against chars with spirit -2! Is it balanced?

Same about most other cards - they are not too powerfull by themselves, it is their combination that makes them powerfull. If it was nearly impossible for runics to gain their +9 attack at 3 turn while playing good counters, but it would be happening at turn 6 - I would not complain about it. If I have never got two my characters killed at the second turn because of gigantic ourenos' attaks, I would not complain about it. If I had never suffered 3 turns of ciclopic damage from 7 secrets (1 warrior, 2 warrior, 3rd warrior, each with at least two blades), I wouldnot complain about them too!

The problem is that you are looking at old original deck and say - it won't be playable if the nerf would happen, but there are other combinations, appeared later, that brake the balanse.

About the last action - the point is that DK can play it 7 times in a row for sure, with their huge def and spirit, and for mages it is much harder to do so.

to calandra:

instead of nerfing abusive spells (but sparks thing off was), they are creating abusive counters, its the same problem, everyone can play with their abusive cards, and have to deal with abusive counter cards

cuting the powercreep with more powercreep isnt a good answer, giving a auto-win card isnt good, its a 1 sided match; like act 3 priest, until sentence was creatd, priest were out of control, then sentence, no more priest. now we have enemy target heals to play around sentence, or damage reduction theurgies, sentences isnt enough again and we dont have another tools against them

you dont like nerfs, but is the best bet, instead of creating cards like teslarms, you could fix lightning spells, because even with teslarms in the game, STO was nerfed, the problem with the nerfs is the same of creating the cards in first place

is the same thing about CatT, you have a 50% winrate, but what if this strategy could win against everything? Nerf or Counter against it? staff should release characters with draw cards capacity only against that

bad nerf/good nerf/abusive counters/good counters

tracker's bell: good nerf
STO: bad nerf
AM G/SoS: abusive counter, punished every spell deck, not only the abusive ones

i said this when discussions in SoS/ignoring cards:
if a deck needs protection against magic damage, simply add cards with magic damage reduction,


what is the point of auto win cards? yeah, mages can play around those cards, then more cards are released, then more play around? then the issue isnt fixed, the metagame become "dont let the opponent play cards or you lost" against mages
we already have a lot of ignoring spells/next card

which will be the next metagame if the current one (ignoring cards) will ignore it?

if you have an abusive deck "A" you can: nerf "A" or buff "B", "C", "D", "E", now "A" is useless
then everytime one of them get out of control

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Also, Wolvos, why don't you think that things already got out of control and something needs to be done? (I am talking about Ourenos and other cards without a limit to the maximum effect).

I wrote about Menacing sky, If you want, I can think about examples of too heavy combos with Ourenos...

And aswer me, please, why are you looking not at the most powerfull combo, but on some "fair" way to use a card?

And I don't understand your words about Runic training (I understand that you believe that my version of nerfing is bad, but I have not got the idea of next sentenses).

quoting myself


i said they are an issue, but again, you want them to be trash, yesterday i saw in the italian forum the same about menacing: you cant nerf it now because you already nerf STO, this will render the deck unplayable, and they arent even the most abusive mages out there, now you have AM G, remove the current menacing sky and see what is left: lightning blade, nerfed thunderstroke, nothing else, how can i be able to win with those 2 damage spells only?

the "best combo" scenario is a sum of a lot of mistakes, izandra, menacing sky, spark things off

STO became op since izandra and menacing, if they would nerfed izandra and/or menacing sky they could have fixed the deck, now when the wrong decision were made (STO and thunderstroke) you cant keep cuting more cards of the deck, blame the staff, not the still menacing sky combo op deck

using 3 or 4 runes, or removing the centorium's cor rune render unusable that card, and the effect dont worth 3 or 4 runes (see the effect of crushing dogma), while some cards dont even need to spent something else to be activated (ancestral wrath, desintegration, the dragon's breath) or with similar effects (pshycoanalysis, Lamentation of Sol'ra ), runing training ISNT the problem

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How do you distinguish, what would become totaly unusable (trash), and what would not?


About training - maybe, the change should be 1 Cor: attack +3 until the end of the game?

its easy, just see the old STO and the actual one, thats a trashy nerf

sometimes you need to cut 1 or 2 points instead of reworking the whole card

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Wolvos, the point is - how can you tell, if a nerf is trashy or not. I understand, that cutting a rare to a level lower than an uncommon from 2 set () is trashy, but how can you tell it about these nerfs.

The Last Action - keeps it's main function (as I see it) - to provide mages with a good phisical attack instead of magic damage.
Ourenos - to revenge against killers who kills creatures of the forests, and this function is still there!
Runic training - bonus until the end of the game +recycle. Stays here.
Menacing sky - okay, maybe better add to attracts lightning - cannot play an AoE-card.

What else do you disagree with?

you can see it in the price of the card, before-after in case of rare cards, because rare cards have no max. price (dont know why)

ectasy: still at same price of prenerf
tracker bell: lowered to half (seen at 100k) still powerful
ancestral wrath: 250 or more
sto: 10k (from 200k or more)

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Sorry, I am wrong. I mean, if the nerf would be trashy or not, if it haven't happened yet.

we are talking again what we talked yesterday

i took this thread again because you and i were there discussing viewtopic.php?f=207&t=16001&#p142979

i am done with "discussing" (" ", because discuss means hear and be heard) with almost 99% of people i talk to about what true fair/unfair nerfs are, so i wont keep "discussing" anymore, and if you are agree i suggest everyone else, if you really want to keep "discussing" about nerf ideas like this, from now, do it in discussions subforum, because this is not the proper place to destroy decks

my best regards to you and have a nice day

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