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Message Publié : 09 Mai 2013, 07:37 
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Inscription : 04 Février 2013, 21:52
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I really don't think people should adjust their basic decks just to counter witchblade or elfine...

That only proves that those decks are the ones that got all the chances to win against you, but hey, cheer up my friend, you can add cards to your deck to """"counter"""" the op and see if you stand a chance

Yes, that's a lot of inverted commas

Larry_Xu a écrit :
as i said before, my argument was primarily against the fact that decks will power creep to a 2 turn kill isnt really a bad thing. and yes, new cards DO get patched if they prove op.


I don't think they would have cared to write order bonuses up to turn 7 or so if a deck can finish a match in two turns

New cards shouldn't have to prove to be OP. Man, as soon as you find about the new releases you come up with ideas and strategies to use the cards. It takes less than thirty seconds or less to notice that Dissintegration + Dragon's breath is just too much


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Message Publié : 09 Mai 2013, 08:32 
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Inscription : 01 Avril 2013, 00:17
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Based on your statement about counters, I will assume that you percieve counter cards in a deck to be "immoral" and impractical. I will also assume it to be your primary argument for the above designated post.

Counter cards are extremely important, useful, and fun to use in a TCG. There are many cards specifically created to counter others, whether it be a specific item (), or a general card (, , ). In fact, all TCGs use this kind of concept, ex Yugioh, Magic, Vanguard, Eredan, etc. I therefore strongly believe your argument that I assume to degrade counter cards to be invalid. In fact, in many TCGs, many of the higher-up players don't follow a strict metagame deck, but instead add cards to counter the general meta. Eredan is no exception, and the use of cards to fight off metagame decks such as WBs and Elfines in Basic is completely justified IMO.

I think that you kind of made your second argument about the role of late turn order bonuses on the spot. Why not put a late order bonus? Some characters () like to go for the ensured early bonus for burst, and some, such as ) has later bonuses in anticipation for a later turned battle. Of course, tempus in itself is probably not a good example, due to how they speed turns. But look at defensive decks including Kotoba warriors and desert nomads. They are meant to stall and strengthen as the enemy wears down. In fact, burst decks such as my own Noz Blasts are meant to finish early ( only has order bonuses at turns 2 and 4).

Just to use a comparison, D-breath x2 with my deck (Exhien, Blanche, Pilkim) would net a nice 10+10 first turn. Disintegration buffs the damage from 2~8 on average (6+6+16=28 at the luckiest with Pilkim unbuffed, 5+4+13=22 unluckiest), and Rain of Death by comparison with a D-Breath nets (4+3+10=17 unluckiest, 4+7+10=21 luckiest). The huge advantage with Disintegration is that it is easier to play the disintegration+D-breath and a double D-breath. Pulling a double disintegration isnt bad either (5+4+6+4=19 unluckiest, 6+6+8+6=26 luckiest). So really, Disintegration helps consistency in damage for Noz blasts, and I really appreciate that. It helps a whole lot esp against Nomads who always manage to heal from an unlucky Rain of Death. Besides, Noz Blasts could not compete in damage with other burst decks (Lightning Pirates, Crows, Zils, Linkers) for some time. I think that the addition of Disintegration plays a positive role.

I don't completely disagree with your general trend that the game might go unfair. I just think that the change needs to be more of an implementation on the game, instead of that strictly on the cards. (This is a reason why I kind of let Nurvus talk a lot :))


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Message Publié : 09 Mai 2013, 09:58 
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Inscription : 04 Février 2013, 17:58
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Kudos to Larry_Xu for a insight into the card games. I whole heartedly agree with all of your points.

The only thing perhaps lacking in Eredan tournament is the best of 2-out-of-3 games whereby you can use sideboard. This, IMHO, will bring back competitiveness for most of the decks, allowing players improve their deck strategy/weakness. It might drag the game a bit longer (and players are still free to quit). So a suitable crystals/Elo points compensation can be considered here.


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Message Publié : 09 Mai 2013, 10:15 
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Inscription : 01 Avril 2013, 00:17
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LOL, and I made a suggestion about having it just an hr or so ago, you can check that out if ur interested!


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Message Publié : 09 Mai 2013, 12:52 
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Inscription : 05 Février 2013, 13:33
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Larry_Xu a écrit :
Although there are a lot of things I don't agree with Feerik, this is not one of those things. I'll try to compare this game with Magic the Gathering as an attempt to counter primarily the argument that games will only last a couple turns is a terrible, unbalanced, un-fun, overpowered, and stupid.

You all claim that at this rate, power creep will bring deck being able to almost regularly finish at turn 2, and probably will finish at turn 3. I agree that this as card releases come out, power creep will rise, and decks will become overpowered.

However, look at Magic. They have very overpowered decks that easily claim 2 turn wins. Take my elf combo deck, for example. I can literally draw and summon my deck, and drop Emrakul for gg in 2 turns.

IT IS TRUE that Magic is balanced. How else would it remain the top dog in the TCG world for so long? How did they do it? Yes, they know what the effects of their card releases will do, and limit the power creep as best as they can. However, there are undeniably decks that are not on ban list that gg turn 1-2. What do they do? They use a "rotating" list that limits the cards that can be used in certain formats, such as their standard. There are formats where old cards can be used to make OP decks, such as Legacy (my elf combo fits here).

But Eredan has this kind of thing too. They have the Amnezy where almost all cards can be used, standard where many legendaries are banned, and basic where the choice is limited and the game has a chance to drag on. Esp for DKs, who have had no chance to participate in tourneys with a fair chance since this game came out, it's fitting for it to get this major buff. And, as with many cards, mods can slightly modify the effects of cards. For ex, in the last patch, the New Kotoba releases were modified so that the effects did not designate all one handed swords, but only those that were Kotoba. They could do something similar with the Noz Dingard Sword that you guys are griping a lot about. they might make the effect only activate at the end of the turn, or make it non-chainable, or unique.


I will highlight how your position falls apart and argument is essentially irrelevant in two words, a comma, a personal pronoun and an ellipsis to trail off into the infinite possibilities.

"In response, I..."

I thought about elaborating... but that's it. That's all the argument I need to make regards anyone taking the position you have and making the arguments you are.


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Message Publié : 09 Mai 2013, 19:09 
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Inscription : 04 Février 2013, 21:52
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No strategy, just expensive-but-effective combos. -91 Health points screenshots?
ARE YOU SERIOUSLY SAYING THAT THIS GAME IS SOOOOOOOOO BALANCED?


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Message Publié : 09 Mai 2013, 23:23 
Marchand

Inscription : 08 Avril 2013, 21:11
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@ Larry_Xu
In response to Magic: I'm not sure, but I'm fairly certain Magic's card pool is obtainable by anyone, whereas Eredan has Trophies and other events, which, after about a month, can never be obtained again. (Few exceptions in champions hall)
Most "Top players" have one or more of the following:







Can anyone that doesn't have these cards get them? Not that I've witnessed(they took most of the trophies out of the store)
Are there any cards in the game that have an affect to that degree? Not really, anything similar needs 2-3 cards to consolidate for the effect.

You claimed your self that your Magic deck is overpowered because it can drop a win in 2 turns. In magic, YGO, and any other irl card game, you have to join a real tournament to play against people who are obviously all as willing to compete as you, you aren't forced to play against the best decks in the game the first time you register, unless you're the card game prodigy, it's pretty much guaranteed you won't.

In magic, when you buy cards, you own them, can sell/trade them at your discretion.
In Eredan, no matter how much money you've spent, if the game goes out of business, that's it for all of your cards and all of the money you've thrown into it.

In irl, you can discuss which format's rules you're going to be using before a casual game.
In Eredan, you have a room where anyone can play all the cards, a joke of a tournament called basic, a standard tournament dominated by the sap hearts, and a room where the creme de la Creme of things that should not be are banned, and everything else is considered fair.

In irl, when you play casually you're limited to whatever outlets/people are near you.
In Eredan, when you -try- to play casually you're lobbed into a big room filled with boss characters, and decks that were banned from tournaments.

In other card games, your characters are in the deck, can die without you(as a player) losing, and have costs to be placed on the field/activated.
In Eredan, you only have three characters, if they die the game ends, most have effects activate before any of the other cards are played, and many have passives that are applied so long as they are alive.

In response to altering your deck to counter other decks:







Can anyone that doesn't have these cards get them? Not that I've witnessed(they took most of the trophies out of the store)
Are there any cards in the game that have an affect to that degree? Not really, anything similar needs 2-3 cards to consolidate for the effect.(shameless copypaste)

As for the following, I've bolded the problem areas.
Larry_Xu a écrit :

Just to use a comparison, D-breath x2 with my deck (Exhien, Blanche, Pilkim) would net a nice 10+10 first turn. Disintegration buffs the damage from 2~8 on average (6+6+16=28 at the luckiest with Pilkim unbuffed, 5+4+13=22 unluckiest), and Rain of Death by comparison with a D-Breath nets (4+3+10=17 unluckiest, 4+7+10=21 luckiest). The huge advantage with Disintegration is that it is easier to play the disintegration+D-breath and a double D-breath. Pulling a double disintegration isnt bad either (5+4+6+4=19 unluckiest, 6+6+8+6=26 luckiest). So really, Disintegration helps consistency in damage for Noz blasts, and I really appreciate that. It helps a whole lot esp against Nomads who always manage to heal from an unlucky Rain of Death. Besides, Noz Blasts could not compete in damage with other burst decks (Lightning Pirates, Crows, Zils, Linkers) for some time. I think that the addition of Disintegration plays a positive role.


Noz Vs Lightning pirates: 100 000 volts, thunderstroke, otherwise they're no threat.
Noz Vs Crows: I missed where Noz has a hard problem with them aside their ability to prevent chain.
Noz vs Zils: Unless they 1 hit, Noz still has the advantage. The only card they have that can really Roll Noz is the Spooker, and that's only if they get priority
Linkers= Tornado spam.

Your unreduced damage at worst for all of your examples was 17. Most characters have 2-3 spirit base, most characters have 14 hp. Not counting the opposing cards, the chance to nuke something turn 1 were already pretty high.
How many characters/cards allow that in other ways that aren't the discussion of the power creep?

The reason the decks "At the Top" even have room for multiple counters is because their base deck is full of cards that have multiple effects that trump other cards of their caliber.

_________________
Fixing Eredan
Courtiers are not your friends


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Message Publié : 11 Mai 2013, 02:05 
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Inscription : 04 Février 2013, 23:36
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the main fault of this game is that some guilds are left behind (zil mainly) and others are too powerful, the releases have to be like magic, all colors at the time (guilds). Personally I got bored of this game, and the events make me rage instead of enjoy. :?


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Message Publié : 11 Mai 2013, 21:33 
Marchand

Inscription : 08 Avril 2013, 21:11
Message(s) : 522
The story jumps ten years.
The power gap between guilds that haven't had adequate releases to reflect this, and those that have, is a relevant one.

_________________
Fixing Eredan
Courtiers are not your friends


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Message Publié : 12 Mai 2013, 07:39 
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Inscription : 04 Février 2013, 21:52
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I don't like the fact that they are releasing too mmany legendary cards... They just do it for the money and that's all


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