You want thunder-courtier? I have it too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7MxMcBIUWA

It does not matter if a combo that kills all the battlefield in one turn needs tons of crystals or preparation - a deck may not be able to counter, for example, or your opponent may not have appropriate cards. Of course, it may be countered - but by other expensive cards. In the forum of another game (it is tactical collectional card game) it was said, that if a combo reqires specific cards to be cancelled, or otherwise you lose to this combo, than it is imbalanced combo.

If you compare pure cards, then there should not be any problem with Bell - it is 2 def and 1 atk by itself! 3 points total! Okay, two fights, 6 points - not much.

Or, maybe, I don't understand something.

Also, say, please, how would you correct the card if you were a developer?

You cannot tell me, that this is not OP

Full-Oneshot turn 1:

- main fighter -29 LP
- bouth other chars -11 LP

= > Win and score of 88 within turn 1

No deck should be able to win in turn 1 oder 2 anyway.



(klick to make the picure big)

_________________
/\_/\
>^,^<
-/ \
(__)__,
Al hail and glory to the Zil, the living Shadow and the Circus!

PS.: Right now I'm only on for calendar. Not playing activ.
We lost the balance too bad since the damned sacred cards.

yep, im agree with you in this last idea, no one should be able to be 1 shooted in turn 1, 2 for sure



but im not agree with the part of loosing against a combo isnt okay
if i have to wait 10 turns for my autowin combo, then you have 9 turns or less to finish me, you failed 9 turns in a row and that is balanced, you deserve the defeat

but if in turn 1 i pulled my combo and won, that is unbalanced (im agree with this)
again im not against this nerf, im against killing cards/decks

(trackers bell also play another card) so its more than 6, also this card is attached

and im telling you STO isnt op and put some real facts of why, you both just put highlights and pictures

in my last "try" you can see how much damage comes from the card and how much from the combo, the combo is broken, because the preparation is 0, you can win since turn 1 and that isnt STO fault

no izandra, no menacing sky, no combo wombo, just a regular strategy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5cRxcZ_DVI

and this before the abusive combo happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9Q_m01T6tw

You cannot tell me, that this is OP

yesterday, the problem was thunderstroke (and to be honest I TOLD YOU ISNT THUNDERSTROKE) now, is the aoe, tomorrow...
izandra http://www.forums.eredan.com/viewtopic. ... ke#p116689
settlement viewtopic.php?f=40&t=10214
long long post viewtopic.php?f=40&t=7935
thunderstroke viewtopic.php?f=207&t=12399#p115038

i was there, in every thread giving some constructive ideas -and flaming too-
you still think the aoe was the problem? or is the cards played befeore the aoe?

_________________
My (outdated) decks

create a new post if you want to communicate with me, DONT SEND PMs!!!!

CURRENT STATUS: OFFLINE / NOT MODERATING

Maybe, we both correct at some point. Our difference is that I choose the strongest combos with the card, and judge about balance from that point, and you - in situations when no special combo is used. Maybe, you are right, but in discussing balance, only strongest combos matter, not weakest. You say, tracker Bell is IMBA, but without items in your deck it is just 6 point total! Same here - STO may not be imba by itself, but in combo it's power increases greatly - that is the problem. Same for other cards, I think.



Also, I cannot open your last links.

in my point of view ANYTHING that pulls out half the deck in NO MATTER which turn in a card game where you REGULARY are only able to play up to 2 cards IS in fact OP.

i d say up till 4 cards are acceptable because they dont destroy the game... but if i draw 10; 12; 17 cards in one single turn the game is out of balance

so far no other then pirate and noz are able to do this... and they should draw a line here and work on the source of this problem which is in my opinion not STO but menancing sky...

the 2 videos wolvos refered to are showing a relative good gameplay... not a "turn 1 game is over" mage domination... this is what i want to play with... no problem if the enemy wins against me... but the sky is a devastating force which humiliates the opponent by leaving them totally chanceless...

SOF was a strong card but only with preparation... that is having lots of lighting spells out in the game... that again works perfectly fine if you play attract lightning...as seen in the videos, but thats the main problem... cards drawing other cards and causing an effect

and on top... menancing sky is also healing that damn user by up to 12 hp if he is below 0... which makes it an even worse kinda of insult to the enemy

instead of uselessly nerfing cards which actually dont deserve a nerf they should look at the mechanics behind it and nerf the reason why the card got so powerful



(i remember once that i was playing with a very very early version of eclipse against some curtisans and i was able to one shot every single char... the enemy was posting that in the old forum in a discussion thread that was saying like... look what happened to me today; nowadays that is 'normal'... noone is wondering about that?)

fixed my links

this is what im trying to say, you nerfed the aoe, but the problem was menacing sky and izandra

people saying the aoe is the problem cant see the basic damage of the AoE is at the same level
(check my links) with thunderstroke was the same, i said the problem isnt thunderstroke the lightning deck can beat you without that card, nobody cares about what i said

the origin of the damage of the spells are the spirit, spell damage, flat damage, and number of X cards (like flawseekers) if you can raise this numbers, then the finisher would be OP for everyone

with this same logic i would nerf celereity and aging

_________________
My (outdated) decks

create a new post if you want to communicate with me, DONT SEND PMs!!!!

CURRENT STATUS: OFFLINE / NOT MODERATING

Anybody can do this, I think. Zil may play a row of clonings, Kotoba may draw 3 tracker bells in a row, Nehant has Necrology, Exploit Weakness and entropy, Sap has Storm bow (and action that plays two items from discard).

But you don't meet this since these combos don't have a lot of potential or very random. So playing a lot of cards is not a problem by itself - the problem is strength of these cards and whole mehanics of the deck.



To Wolvos - okay, I agree that there should not be killing cards/decks. Then, let's put a definition - what is deck killing? What is card killing?

If you have a deck that won't lose to anything anless by extremely bad luck, and then a strong counter to it's strategy is released - is it deck killing?
If there is a key card for a sertain deck, very powerful, and suddenly it is nerfed - is it deck kill? Is it card kill? Nerfed like A) Smoke bomb (hated that nerf) B) like STO?

its hard to create a good definition as hard as is to balance an online card game like this one
cant put precise definitions but examples

deck killing: tempus: original from 4 rounds to 2-3, why? because the only way this card is op is playing 2 or 3 copies in the first 2 rounds, the deck wasnt a 1 or 2 round win combo, but was nerfed because of this, only the favorable games (spamming the card and giving a virtual turn 12 in turn real 2) were used to nerf this card (highlights of the deck, like STO videos)

forum.eredan.com/viewtopic.php?id=38635
forum.eredan.com/viewtopic.php?id=40415&p=1

but STO is even easir to pull than x2 HTD so tempus nerf was even more unfair

tempus got nerfed because their highlights (everyone with slows decks got owned by them) but fast decks (noz mages, zil, eclipse, tracker) are the unfavorable matches = NOT OP, but priest players complain, warrior players complain = nerfed, then tempus were not OP (in the words of the priest/warriors) for slow decks and was UP against fast decks


but this is different with "STO" ("" because im telling you, the problem is menacing sky, at least now) there isnt fast enough deck to stop it, no unfavorable matches = OP



you could "deck balancing" instead of deck killing, and this is what im looking for since this i put my first word in this post

the nerf made tempus from competitive (not op) to just for fun = bad nerf
the STO nerf made from op to just for fun = bad nerf
the thunderstroke nerf from op (the deck was op before) to op (still op) = bad nerf


the ourenos nerf from op to op = just see what happens when you kill ourenos with ancestral wrath full buff

_________________
My (outdated) decks

create a new post if you want to communicate with me, DONT SEND PMs!!!!

CURRENT STATUS: OFFLINE / NOT MODERATING

Maybe it would have been a better to chose another card for the nerf instead:
And to add to
"Cannot draw zone. Cannot draw itself or ."

_________________
/\_/\
>^,^<
-/ \
(__)__,
Al hail and glory to the Zil, the living Shadow and the Circus!

PS.: Right now I'm only on for calendar. Not playing activ.
We lost the balance too bad since the damned sacred cards.

I think what mister loyal was referring to was that this isnt an exlusive problem of the pirate/noz players using menancing sky but in general a trend towards 'pulling cards' which have an effect themselves.

Lets see Zils cloning: copies the last playable card in graveyard but no effect itself!

Necros: i would take these out in this case since their gameplay relies on pulling back cards, but let me say this, i m a necro player myself and i can assure you they are not OP at all... in fact easily tackeled if you hit the graveyard, besides they need like 3-4 rounds to get started, so they are slow unlike mages who can go all out from turn 1.

entropy: the card allows to play 2 random spells from graveyard and gives no alternative effect... pretty decent imo

the sap action playing 2 cards from graveyard: no further stats increasing happening

on the other hand, as you said there are cards like:

Trackers Bell: next item is pulled and increases stats, so its like a free card

menancing sky: next lighning spell pulled, causing damage/healing by itself

I think what mister loyal tried to imply was that the cards causing effects AND boosting stats are the reason for things going OP. honestly i agree on this.